Reflect: what am I doing wrong?

[Docpeanut]

I tried reflect on a panel on my wife's van tonight, cool to touch, in shade and again it was like cement trying to buff off the remains. I tried it with a hybrid pad, a ccs pad and a hydrotech. Still the same results.

[Wors]

What polisher, speed, # of passes, and how much product did you apply to the pad?

[Docpeanut]

Flex 3401, speed 5, 6 passes. I did not prime the pads, used 3 pea sized drops. I'm at a loss

[Dr Oldz]

Curious as to why you didn't prime the pad?

[Andres Bravo]

What car is it?

[Docpeanut]

I tried it on a 14 grand cherokee and a 13 grand caravan. I didn't prime the pad with product, I used a spritz of Wolfgang pad conditioner as my priming agent

[DARK HORSE]

This is very strange! I can hardly imagine what you are describing. One of the things I really like about Reflect is how easy it wipes off. That being said, I always lightly prime the pad by working a bit of polish into it. Also, if you are working outside, be SURE it's not to hot out and you are working in a well shaded area. Try doing a few less passes, Reflect works very quickly. Maybe you are over working an under primed pad???

[DARK HORSE]

I tried it on a 14 grand cherokee and a 13 grand caravan. I didn't prime the pad with product, I used a spritz of Wolfgang pad conditioner as my priming agent

Try priming the pad as I described above, don't use the WGPC. Work some polish into the pad, then add a few more drops of polish, and do a few less passes, then wipe it off. It should wipe off like air.

[Docpeanut]

I'll give it a go, James also suggested I try it on my griots 6, I'll do that as well. I'm not giving up on reflect yet

[DARK HORSE]

I'll give it a go, James also suggested I try it on my griots 6, I'll do that as well. I'm not giving up on reflect yet

No reason not to use your 3401, I use it all the time with Reflect.

[Docpeanut]

I'm determined to unlock the potential of reflect

[DARK HORSE]

Reflect in action...

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad169/tadndonna/023_zps4d2b9373.jpg (http://s932.photobucket.com/user/tadndonna/media/023_zps4d2b9373.jpg.html)

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad169/tadndonna/025_zps63686e81.jpg (http://s932.photobucket.com/user/tadndonna/media/025_zps63686e81.jpg.html)

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad169/tadndonna/068_zps0cd12d99.jpg (http://s932.photobucket.com/user/tadndonna/media/068_zps0cd12d99.jpg.html)

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad169/tadndonna/065_zps9a39a903.jpg (http://s932.photobucket.com/user/tadndonna/media/065_zps9a39a903.jpg.html)

[Docpeanut]

I may have to order another bottle from Corey(got this one on Amazon). I'm thinking I may have a bum bottle, maybe the person I got it from mixed something in with it

[DARK HORSE]

Ya, that's scary using something from someone you don't know. You never know for sure what you may be getting.

[Docpeanut]

I can assure you I won't make that mistake again, direct from the source from here on out

[James]

No reason not to use your 3401, I use it all the time with Reflect.

What speed setting for 3401 and what pad? I was in the same boat as Brian - challenges with Reflect on my mustang. I had my speed at 4 1/2 to 5, 1st two passes pressure and 3 /4 just weight of the 3401. I tried a LC hybrid white pad, hybrid black pad then finally crimson pad. I was getting little tick marks on my paint - crimson pad was better but not that wow factor I got when I used Reflect on a Benz. I thought maybe it has something do with the Flex, but after your post, I doubt it now.

It may be my technique and pad selection - asked Corey and he suggested Buff n Shine Blue pad. I do know I made the mistake of priming pad like I normally do with Menzerna.

Hopefully you can share your experiences with us!

[Corey]

With Reflect using either Flex 3401 or Rupes bigfoot I have a similar method.

Fresh pad to start of course:
One thin line down it
Touch it to the paint repeatedly across the area I am about to polish
Turn on low and spread once with fast arm movement
Turn it up to speed 5 or 6 with some pressure (a little more with Flex) (slightly faster arm movement than typical with my finishing polish
2 passes in that manner
Then turn down to 4 or 4.5 and use VERY slow arm movement / eased up pressure for a pass until I am just keeping the pad perfectly flat and no longer any extra pressure
Continue in that manner until the polish is almost completely invisible. (Usually 2 of these very slow arm movement passes)

Wipe off section with YF

Next section-
Important - Brush pad out very well
Apply 2-3 very small dots to pad
touch to paint a bunch of times where Im about to polish
repeat rest of procedure

[James]

With Reflect using either Flex 3401 or Rupes bigfoot I have a similar method.

Fresh pad to start of course:
One thin line down it
Touch it to the paint repeatedly across the area I am about to polish
Turn on low and spread once with fast arm movement
Turn it up to speed 5 or 6 with some pressure (a little more with Flex) (slightly faster arm movement than typical with my finishing polish
2 passes in that manner
Then turn down to 4 or 4.5 and use VERY slow arm movement / eased up pressure for a pass until I am just keeping the pad perfectly flat and no longer any extra pressure
Continue in that manner until the polish is almost completely invisible. (Usually 2 of these very slow arm movement passes)

Wipe off section with YF

Next section-
Important - Brush pad out very well
Apply 2-3 very small dots to pad
touch to paint a bunch of times where Im about to polish
repeat rest of procedure

Blue Buff & Shine Pad?

Thank you Corey!

[Corey]

Blue Buff & Shine Pad?

Thank you Corey!

Depends for sure on the paint but its either the Blue, the Super soft (white or red) depending on size.. OR the Hydrotech Crimson which I LOVE for reflect on harder paints. The best I have used and my new favorite for finishing is the Scholl Concepts Neo Honey Gold but I know not many of you have that in your toolbox yet as an option. You should be able to get great results with one of the other 3 I mentioned. Basically either a very soft foam, the blue BS, or the HT crimson.

Of course if you were one stepping swirls then you would go with something like the orange -

[James]

Depends for sure on the paint but its either the Blue, the Super soft (white or red) depending on size.. OR the Hydrotech Crimson which I LOVE for reflect on harder paints. The best I have used and my new favorite for finishing is the Scholl Concepts Neo Honey Gold but I know not many of you have that in your toolbox yet as an option. You should be able to get great results with one of the other 3 I mentioned. Basically either a very soft foam, the blue BS, or the HT crimson.

Of course if you were one stepping swirls then you would go with something like the orange -

I already know honey spider pads will be ordered at some point, along with the Scholl's polishes - no doubt about that!

[Dr Oldz]

I find reflect works much better with a rotary.

[DARK HORSE]

What speed setting for 3401 and what pad? I was in the same boat as Brian - challenges with Reflect on my mustang. I had my speed at 4 1/2 to 5, 1st two passes pressure and 3 /4 just weight of the 3401. I tried a LC hybrid white pad, hybrid black pad then finally crimson pad. * I was getting little tick marks on my paint - crimson pad was better but not that wow factor I got when I used Reflect on a Benz. I thought maybe it has something do with the Flex, but after your post, I doubt it now.

It may be my technique and pad selection - asked Corey and he suggested Buff n Shine Blue pad. I do know I made the mistake of priming pad like I normally do with Menzerna.

Hopefully you can share your experiences with us!

Hi James, looks like Corey has already summed it up. The method I use is almost the same as Corey described. The only difference is that I actually lightly prime the pad first by working a small amount of polish into it, then add a few very small dots of polish to the pad. From there it's pretty much the same. I also apply moderate downward pressure for the first couple passes, then lighten up on the pressure but still hold the polisher firmly to the paint (never lifting up on the polisher to reduce the weight of it against the paint). Reason being; is a dual-action polisher moves the pad across the paint in two distinct motions, a circular motion and an orbital motion. Because of this "random action" the pad is always accelerating, both positive and negative. IMO, when downward pressure is overly reduced (like lifting up on the polisher) the pad will begin to absorb the orbital motion, much like a blob of Jello. This may cause uneven pressure between the pad and the paint which can result in an uneven finish. Maintaining an even pressure on the machine (even slight pressure, such as just holding the polisher firmly and flat to the paint) allows for more of the orbital-motion to be transferred from the pad to the paint. When finishing out with the 3401; I finish the last pass or two like Corey mentioned with "slow arm speed", and an even slower polishing speed of between 3-4. We use a slower speed at the finishing step because the higher the speed, the more violent the pattern created by the two motions become. Inherently DA's create curly-q patterns as a result of the two motions. * With a slow speed and firm pressure the pad will rotate slowly, which results in gently curved curly-q's. When the speed is high or the polisher is not held firmly to the paint the pad rotates faster and more violently, which causes the curly-q pattern to be much sharper and more pronounced.

[KMG]

I pretty much use Corey's technique on my Rupes 15. You need to watch that your not trying to work too large of an area also if your having a problem removing it.

[Zach McGovern]

It took some practice for me to understand how to properly use Reflect... I was seeing marring/tick marks quite often and was getting frustrated.

After talking with Corey, he explained I was probably using too much product and not enough machine speed... I grabbed a new pad, put 5-6 SMALL dots on it at first, worked it as described by Corey, and it finished great. I then used just 2-3 SMALL dots afterward cleaning the pad and got perfect results again... it is amazing how little product you use with Reflect. Just takes some practice as it is a little different than most other products we are used to.

[James]

Hi James, looks like Corey has already summed it up. The method I use is almost the same as Corey described. The only difference is that I actually lightly prime the pad first by working a small amount of polish into it, then add a few very small dots of polish to the pad. From there it's pretty much the same. I also apply moderate downward pressure for the first couple passes, then lighten up on the pressure but still hold the polisher firmly to the paint (never lifting up on the polisher to reduce the weight of it against the paint). Reason being; is a dual-action polisher moves the pad across the paint in two distinct motions, a circular motion and an orbital motion. Because of this "random action" the pad is always accelerating, both positive and negative. IMO, when downward pressure is overly reduced (like lifting up on the polisher) the pad will begin to absorb the orbital motion, much like a blob of Jello. This may cause uneven pressure between the pad and the paint which can result in an uneven finish. Maintaining an even pressure on the machine (even slight pressure, such as just holding the polisher firmly and flat to the paint) allows for more of the orbital-motion to be transferred from the pad to the paint. When finishing out with the 3401; I finish the last pass or two like Corey mentioned with "slow arm speed", and an even slower polishing speed of between 3-4. We use a slower speed at the finishing step because the higher the speed, the more violent the pattern created by the two motions become. Inherently DA's create curly-q patterns as a result of the two motions. * With a slow speed and firm pressure the pad will rotate slowly, which results in gently curved curly-q's. When the speed is high or the polisher is not held firmly to the paint the pad rotates faster and more violently, which causes the curly-q pattern to be much sharper and more pronounced.


I pretty much use Corey's technique on my Rupes 15. You need to watch that your not trying to work too large of an area also if your having a problem removing it.


It took some practice for me to understand how to properly use Reflect... I was seeing marring/tick marks quite often and was getting frustrated.

After talking with Corey, he explained I was probably using too much product and not enough machine speed... I grabbed a new pad, put 5-6 SMALL dots on it at first, worked it as described by Corey, and it finished great. I then used just 2-3 SMALL dots afterward cleaning the pad and got perfect results again... it is amazing how little product you use with Reflect. Just takes some practice as it is a little different than most other products we are used to.

Thanks guys for your input and experiences. I love all my CarPro products and it's great we have a forum for us hobbyist, very few of us here lol, to learn from you guys the Pro's :cool:

[Detail2Correction]

I didn't read through all the responses, I'm at work(day job) and wanted to throw out a few quick ideas.

I have had amazing results w/ Reflect. Rupes 21, speed 4, BS black pad, moderate pressure= money

On a 6 inch pad I will use four pea size drops and then drop back to three. I have found using a detail spray makes the abrasives clump together; this can leave tick marks and IMO the polish doesn't cut or break down as well. To "prime" the pad turn the machine speed down and use light pressure and throttle the machine a few times. This helps disperse Reflect over the entire face of the pad and helps tremendously to keep the pad from drying out.

If you are using a soft pad like a finishing pad you have to use more pressure to control the movement/rotation of the pad. If you don't use enough pressure you will get micromarring. This is because the soft pad "wiggles wiggles" and rotates all "willy nilly" Using more pressure compresses the pad and takes a lof of the wiggle out of it. If you are using a soft pad and find you have micro marring try using more pressure, you will be surprised with the results.

Three passes and the Reflect should be pretty much gone. If it's not try using a little bit less product. It should be very easy to wipe off. If it's not you are using too much product or working to big of an area(this happened to me a couple weeks ago and it took a bit for me to figure out what I was doing wrong) A 1x1 section is about perfect for three drops.

If you are working Reflect the appropriate amount of time you shouldn't see any abrasives left on the pad, the face will just be white. However if you aren't working it long enough there will be larger white spots all over pad. The mineral oil that is used to transport the abrasives has disipated but the abrasives have not fully broken down.

Check out my "Reflect FTW" thread in the products review section. I have quite a few pictures showing what Reflect is capable of.

Relfect works OK with the PC. I get the gloss like with the Rupes but not the defect removal. The extra stroke of the Rupes makes all the difference and basically turns Reflect into a different polish.

I hope this helps some and I apologize if I have repeated some things that have already been said.