Slickness is overrate....

Dr Oldz

Certified Nuba Installer
I often see post about coatings not being slick to the touch and what to do to improve that feel...for instance .....using reload or hydro2 ontop of a costing to achieve this......


It has been my experience with UK and Finest to just leave them alone. If you want easy rinse ability and that "stay clean" effect.... Do not top the coatings. They may not feel slick but they will do as advertised if you let them be!



Just my experience and thoughts....


Anyone feel free to agree/disagree??!!??!!
 
Thank You!
I did use RELOAD on a recent CQUK coating application because
a. The vehicle sits outside.
b. It was sitting outside 24 hours after the application, to help lessen the chances of water spots.

Normally, I like to leave the coating alone and let it do what it's suppose to do. I'm not worried about slickness as much as I am the protection and dirt releasing ability. Better yet, WHY ARE PEOPLE TOUCHING MY VEHICLE??? LOL!
 
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I agree and disagree, (mostly agree). I completely agree about slickness!!!!!!! Why would I be running my fingers on it anyway?

So I don't add anything for the purpose of slickness.

On UK I would add reload if it wasn't going to be able to get a solid cure before seeing water, just to be safe.

Beyond that it's coat, wash regularly with reset and life is good.

Every 3-12 months Iron X and if you want add reload then to smooth any imperfections.
 
I agree and disagree, (mostly agree).
On UK I would add reload if it wasn't going to be able to get a solid cure before seeing water, just to be safe.

Hence why I did the RELOAD on my friend's vehicle which sits outside 24/7. Although it did sit in my garage overnight, I didn't want to chance it.

Steve
 
I agree with all. In an ideal world, only Reset is needed
 
Me personally still learning the coating in/outs its very unusual not to have the slickness. After using waxes/sealents your whole life/career you learn to gauge how well the protection on the vehicle is by the slickness. For instance, a freshly waxed or sealed car is going to obviously have a nice slick feel to it & that's what most people are expecting. Also that's how most people gauge if they need their car waxed or not. So it's a learning curve or something to get used to. I personally love the feel slick paint, but I have found a new love that is the water beading of a car with a coating. Does Finest have the same feel of CQUK? Also, I recently asked if anyone had experienced a static effect from a coating & was suggested to apply reload to resolve this. Or did I misunderstand?
 
I agree and disagree, (mostly agree). I completely agree about slickness!!!!!!! Why would I be running my fingers on it anyway?

So I don't add anything for the purpose of slickness.

On UK I would add reload if it wasn't going to be able to get a solid cure before seeing water, just to be safe.

Beyond that it's coat, wash regularly with reset and life is good.

Every 3-12 months Iron X and if you want add reload then to smooth any imperfections.

I agree Corey. I understand reload in that instance. I consider that not a topping but more as a necessity.

I also prefer TrIx. Tar can really diminish a coating performance also. So i consider Trix the best of both worlds.
 
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I agree Corey. I understand reload in that instance. I consider that not a topping but more as a necessity.

I also prefer TrIx. Tar can really diminish a coating performance also. So i consider Trix the best of both worlds.


Doc, have you tried using Reset as your regular wash on the coating? I find the tar doesn't seem to build up if Reset is used regularly. Curious to see if others have noticed this.
 
I use RESET and I have seen very small amounts of tar. Come to think of it not nearly as much but still a little bit, whether wheels or panels.
 
Doc, have you tried using Reset as your regular wash on the coating? I find the tar doesn't seem to build up if Reset is used regularly. Curious to see if others have noticed this.

I haven't used enough to comment but will take note now that you mentioned it.

I have in the past noted that CP coatings tend not to accumulate as much tar build up compared to a standard sealant or wax.
 
I do like the slick paint and it only matters to me right after application of reload or a rinseless wash. My thinking is if anything can be applied on top of the coating that will make it last a little longer I am all for it. This brings me to another question. How do you know when the coating is reaching the end of its life and what are the first things to look for? My hope would be that the hardness would be the longest lasting ( enter the thats what she said jokes here ).
 
WARNING!!!! This post is about to go deep!!

Here are a couple of questions for you:
  1. Have you ever asked yourselves what slickness actually is?
    [*]Have you ever asked yourselves what causes slickness?
    [*]I do know that you've asked why coatings are not inherently slick, but do you know why they aren't??
    [*]Have you ever asked yourselves why we have a love affair with slickness?
    [*]Have you ever asked yourselves what slickness actually imparts to your vehicle finish?

Question #1: Have you ever asked yourselves what slickness actually is?


Slide1.JPG

Slickness is a tactile response from the mechanoreceptors we have in our skin. The most sensitive mechanoreceptors are found in the very top layers of the dermis and epidermis and are generally found in larger concentration on the palms, lips, tongue, soles of feet, fingertips, eyelids, and the face. The Merkel's disks and Meissner's corpuscles are the primary mechanoreceptors responsible for translating textures to the brain, whereas Ruffini's corpuscles and Pacinian corpuscles are essential for translating proprioceptive information (3D positional sense)

Question #2: Have you ever asked yourselves what causes slickness?

Obviously since the mechanoreceptor above translate texture, and anything that will impart or reduce the texture will be translated accordingly. Slickeness is the state of reduced/refined texture. So a freshly polished paintwork, devoid of any textural imperfections feels "slick to us". The problem is that we do not really understand the slickness component and often MISUSE the term. Here is a picture I created as "education material" which I will share here but refer to later as well.

10499486_746096158786094_7066830013593314262_o.jpg

As you can see paint under an electron microscope is ROUGH, but not rough enough that we perceive texture. We will however notice (consciously or unconsciously) the textural difference if imperfections (scratches and swirls or contaminants) are present. By using decontamination agents (mechanical or chemical) we can restore the matrix, by polishing we can refine the matrix, and by protecting we can further refine the textural/tactile feel. So why would a coating not feel "slick"

Question #3: I do know that you've asked why coatings are not inherently slick, but do you know why they aren't??

To answer this question I have to take a step backward and ask a quick question. What is the opposite of slickness? The answer is roughness!!! But is a coating texture rough?? The answer is NO! It is slick but grippy!! I spoke before of the misnomer and misuse of the word "slickness", and this is where we need to do a better job at understanding and translating the information, and what it means. If we look back on the picture I shared you can see that the texture of the outer texture of a wax and sealant (because of their macrostructures) is irregular, whereas the nanostructure of the coating creates a flatter more uniform (self leveling) surface. So what would those differences translate into? As you know, the surface of your palms and fingers are covered with ridges and valleys

fingerprint-630x420.jpg


As you depress your finger on the surface you will progressively deform those ridges, and as such engage more and more receptors in the analysis of the surface. A very light touch may provide you some information about texture but greater pressure will provide more (until you deform the dermis layer and engage other more important pressure receptors OR if you involve nociceptive (pain) mechanoreceptors). So why aren't coatings inherently slick?? The answer is simpler than you think. The "SUCTION/friction effect"!!. Those finger prints on a "hyper clean" glass like surface, with very minor (imperceptible) deflections will make for a very GRIPPY surface, think along the lines of the old Ajax commercials.


Unlike coatings, waxes and sealants leave oils behind (natural or petroleum). Those oils are very good in providing a hydrophobic protective layer on the car paint (albeit temporary), but neither offers a hard cured surface self leveled surface which could create this "friction effect". They will never be as "squeaky clean" as an oiless hardened quartz or ceramic surface (oils lubricate).

So in understanding coatings one needs to depart from using slickness as a benchmark descriptor and need to appreciate the "grippiness" of the surface for what it is, and what it means.

Question #4: Have you ever asked yourselves why we have a love affair with slickness?


I won't start psycho-analyzing us to death but you can appreciate that our pleasure centers are definitely positively stimulated by the "lack of texture". We've been programmed since birth!! Just think of how soft and smooth baby blankets are. Just look at the most expensive textiles in the world (from silk to cashmere wool etc...) We are definitely programmed, and wax manufacturer did exploit that in their marketing, equating protection with a smooth and silk "frictionless" surface. Is that the case?? Maybe temporary but you have to stay on top of replacing the "sacrificial barrier" otherwise you are DOOMED!

Question #5: Have you ever asked yourselves what coating slickness actually imparts to your vehicle finish?


Well, lets look at each of the attribute of what coatings actually provide, and understanding what was written above, let's decide if slickness is a product or result of any of those qualities. So here are the attribute sought when applying a coating:

  1. Gloss
  2. Depth of shine
  3. Superhydrophobicity
  4. Scratch resistance
  5. UV resistance
  6. Acid rain and chemical protection
  7. Longevity
  8. Water spotting protection
  9. Contaminant bonding prevention
  10. Self cleaning effect

Everyone knows that NONE of the first 9 relates to the slickness, but most may believe that the 10th does. In fact the slickness MAY help improve the self cleaning effect, but most of that effect comes from the hydrophic qualities of the protection, and coatings offer a SUPERhydrophobic protection over waxes and sealants which offer hydrophobic protection (not super). The "departure angle" and "water surface contact" qualities (for wind resistance) go hands down to the coatings. They are much better than any wax or sealant, and will shed water more readily and more completely despite their grippy nature (not being slick). Don't get me wrong, not all coatings are created equal, but the previous statements does apply to most coatings (some coatings being MUCH better than others).

So the conclusion is that slickness is actually more of an emotional crutch to our upbringing, and a psychological satisfying agent in the likes of chocolate (or anything else that makes your day) If slickness is what you are looking for (in addition to all of the above levels of protections) then just apply Reload once a quarter and smile as you touch the paint :).... (but it is not needed)

10496922_742665445795832_7586850388562443674_o.jpg
 
Excellent and thorough Dr. Pain!

I have tried to explain this to others that comment on the grippy feeling of my vehicle. The first thing I say is, "Hey, stop touching my truck."
I like grippy. It means clean and smooth. Slick has always made me think of lubricity which would make me think of a liquid, semi-liquid or soft state. Translation: dust and dirt attractant. Your post is one of the best written explanations I have seen in a while.

Sent from my phone when I am supposed to be doing something else.
 
People love slickness the same way they love foam and suds. The funny thing about both of these love affairs...neither are worthy.
 
WARNING!!!! This post is about to go deep!!

Here are a couple of questions for you:
  1. Have you ever asked yourselves what slickness actually is?
    [*]Have you ever asked yourselves what causes slickness?
    [*]I do know that you've asked why coatings are not inherently slick, but do you know why they aren't??
    [*]Have you ever asked yourselves why we have a love affair with slickness?
    [*]Have you ever asked yourselves what slickness actually imparts to your vehicle finish?

Question #1: Have you ever asked yourselves what slickness actually is?


Slide1.JPG

Slickness is a tactile response from the mechanoreceptors we have in our skin. The most sensitive mechanoreceptors are found in the very top layers of the dermis and epidermis and are generally found in larger concentration on the palms, lips, tongue, soles of feet, fingertips, eyelids, and the face. The Merkel's disks and Meissner's corpuscles are the primary mechanoreceptors responsible for translating textures to the brain, whereas Ruffini's corpuscles and Pacinian corpuscles are essential for translating proprioceptive information (3D positional sense)

Question #2: Have you ever asked yourselves what causes slickness?

Obviously since the mechanoreceptor above translate texture, and anything that will impart or reduce the texture will be translated accordingly. Slickeness is the state of reduced/refined texture. So a freshly polished paintwork, devoid of any textural imperfections feels "slick to us". The problem is that we do not really understand the slickness component and often MISUSE the term. Here is a picture I created as "education material" which I will share here but refer to later as well.

10499486_746096158786094_7066830013593314262_o.jpg

As you can see paint under an electron microscope is ROUGH, but not rough enough that we perceive texture. We will however notice (consciously or unconsciously) the textural difference if imperfections (scratches and swirls or contaminants) are present. By using decontamination agents (mechanical or chemical) we can restore the matrix, by polishing we can refine the matrix, and by protecting we can further refine the textural/tactile feel. So why would a coating not feel "slick"

Question #3: I do know that you've asked why coatings are not inherently slick, but do you know why they aren't??

To answer this question I have to take a step backward and ask a quick question. What is the opposite of slickness? The answer is roughness!!! But is a coating texture rough?? The answer is NO! It is slick but grippy!! I spoke before of the misnomer and misuse of the word "slickness", and this is where we need to do a better job at understanding and translating the information, and what it means. If we look back on the picture I shared you can see that the texture of the outer texture of a wax and sealant (because of their macrostructures) is irregular, whereas the nanostructure of the coating creates a flatter more uniform (self leveling) surface. So what would those differences translate into? As you know, the surface of your palms and fingers are covered with ridges and valleys

fingerprint-630x420.jpg


As you depress your finger on the surface you will progressively deform those ridges, and as such engage more and more receptors in the analysis of the surface. A very light touch may provide you some information about texture but greater pressure will provide more (until you deform the dermis layer and engage other more important pressure receptors OR if you involve nociceptive (pain) mechanoreceptors). So why aren't coatings inherently slick?? The answer is simpler than you think. The "SUCTION/friction effect"!!. Those finger prints on a "hyper clean" glass like surface, with very minor (imperceptible) deflections will make for a very GRIPPY surface, think along the lines of the old Ajax commercials.


Unlike coatings, waxes and sealants leave oils behind (natural or petroleum). Those oils are very good in providing a hydrophobic protective layer on the car paint (albeit temporary), but neither offers a hard cured surface self leveled surface which could create this "friction effect". They will never be as "squeaky clean" as an oiless hardened quartz or ceramic surface (oils lubricate).

So in understanding coatings one needs to depart from using slickness as a benchmark descriptor and need to appreciate the "grippiness" of the surface for what it is, and what it means.

Question #4: Have you ever asked yourselves why we have a love affair with slickness?


I won't start psycho-analyzing us to death but you can appreciate that our pleasure centers are definitely positively stimulated by the "lack of texture". We've been programmed since birth!! Just think of how soft and smooth baby blankets are. Just look at the most expensive textiles in the world (from silk to cashmere wool etc...) We are definitely programmed, and wax manufacturer did exploit that in their marketing, equating protection with a smooth and silk "frictionless" surface. Is that the case?? Maybe temporary but you have to stay on top of replacing the "sacrificial barrier" otherwise you are DOOMED!

Question #5: Have you ever asked yourselves what coating slickness actually imparts to your vehicle finish?


Well, lets look at each of the attribute of what coatings actually provide, and understanding what was written above, let's decide if slickness is a product or result of any of those qualities. So here are the attribute sought when applying a coating:

  1. Gloss
  2. Depth of shine
  3. Superhydrophobicity
  4. Scratch resistance
  5. UV resistance
  6. Acid rain and chemical protection
  7. Longevity
  8. Water spotting protection
  9. Contaminant bonding prevention
  10. Self cleaning effect

Everyone knows that NONE of the first 9 relates to the slickness, but most may believe that the 10th does. In fact the slickness MAY help improve the self cleaning effect, but most of that effect comes from the hydrophic qualities of the protection, and coatings offer a SUPERhydrophobic protection over waxes and sealants which offer hydrophobic protection (not super). The "departure angle" and "water surface contact" qualities (for wind resistance) go hands down to the coatings. They are much better than any wax or sealant, and will shed water more readily and more completely despite their grippy nature (not being slick). Don't get me wrong, not all coatings are created equal, but the previous statements does apply to most coatings (some coatings being MUCH better than others).

So the conclusion is that slickness is actually more of an emotional crutch to our upbringing, and a psychological satisfying agent in the likes of chocolate (or anything else that makes your day) If slickness is what you are looking for (in addition to all of the above levels of protections) then just apply Reload once a quarter and smile as you touch the paint :).... (but it is not needed)

10496922_742665445795832_7586850388562443674_o.jpg

Truth! You really stand for your name! You are definitely a DOCTOR--Detailing Doctor! Thank you for this great post, I learn a lot from it. :)
 
What's even more amazing is guys topping a coating (thereby negating its characteristics) just to add slickness. Why? Who the heck touches the paint other than the owner? Seriously....
 
Thanks for writing another great article. I have learned a lot from this & really appreciate you taking the time to help teach everyone. My skills as a detailer have dramatically improved from becoming a member of this forum & learning to use all of the CarPro & MFM products & thanks to guys like you who are willing to share information to better everyone willing to learn. Thx again, keep up the good work!!
 

Hmm.... This is interesting. And I do agree.

But it now makes me question the use or Reload on CQ even though it is suggested. Can anyone provide a little feedback on this?

 
I get the idea of topping CQ with Reload before CQ fully cures if the car is exposed to moisture soon after its coated...but applying Reload as a regular maintenance topping for CQ, or just to make the coating slicker...is really questionable. Nothing is going to protect a coating other than another coating...sure as heck a sealant or wax can't. Its just another unnecessary step and expense.
 
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